I was around before we had these fleet commands, the world didn't end because you delegated a task to members of the fleet.

I'm sure a bunch of never-log-in metagamers are a fan of a change they'll hardly ever have to experience, let's never mind the opinions of those who you know, actually undock every day and fly spaceships...

It happens in every strat OP.

You should try posting on your main so we can give you a shred of credibility

no more 1 person with 87 Dominix accounts warping to one location at the same time.
+1 for not enabling multiboxers any longer.

yet another update that ruins some people game..

it have to stop somewhere, players play the game because they like it as it is, changing its balance to a degree is a good thing Fozzie. Changing the major things that make the game work is NOT good Mr Fozzie.

You just changed how bomber fleets work, how MOST pilots act in the fleet. meaning that yet again you pissed off a lot of your clients. Sorry Fozzie but i really fail to see how thats a good outcome.

Please stop changing/ruining our game.

Way I see it, this is more fun than waiting for some pilot I have most likely never met face-to-face tell me to press F1 while he does all the rest of the work.

Unless, you know, I am missing something.

Right now the FC ship is also the probing ship most of the time, they don't need an alt.

Please define the scout role as you see it that isn't already in the game and this change implements, other than 'replaces a bookmark'.

Right now the "scout" is the FC ship that everyone is anchored on.

What I find funniest about this is that I have been the scout for numerous coalition fleets in which baltec1 has participated. Even more amazing, I was not the FC! I was, however, bored to tears burning perches for Laz (among others) and then acting as a rolling safe spot. But hey, that's quality game play!

Every scout was new at some point. How do you expect to get new scouts if you refuse to train them?

All FC ships have expanded probe launchers on them.

nail on the head and it's not exactly hard these days to probe. so all people gotta do is up the scout numbers and train more probers.

I cannot believe that the rather intelligent playerbase of EvE is so blind. Did all the F1-monkeyery make you stupid all of a sudden?
You, as many others, seem to miss the point.

... reasons ...

Let the paying noobs have a shiny day in a fleet too!!! (... and if he f*s up, its just a little frigate wreck more. not the end of the day.)

A happy medium here could be met, that is a fleet member could probe out another fleet then broad cast that location which fleet members could individually warp themselves too. That way more is put on individual fleet members however the pace of fights isn't diminished, which is what will happen after this change.

- if only you could fit tackling gear on a scout ship..
- if only you could warp cloaked tacklers with bonus tacklerange to your target...
- if only you could position your scout up to 100km behind your target, away from any decloaking stuff and warp your fleet at range so they land exactly at zero...


if only...

Except only being useful for being a scout gets old. we all came to this game to fight. Not sit and watch everything or hear about it on comms sitting on the far side of a wormhole. being the scout when the fight turns into a 45 minute brawl on a wormhole needs more dps/logi not more scouts.

[quote=Awkward Pi Duolus]What is more enjoyable with anchoring on the FC, targeting what he calls and pressing f1?

The point is, that - as you observed correctly - it will still be possible to catch targets, even if they are inside of whatever gas-clouds, debrid-fields or similar areas. Some people claimed they wouldn't be able to do this after the fleetwarp change.

Correct is, they can't do it the way they did before. They can still do it with some adaptations.

The whole "problem" is an attitude one. If you think you don't contribute as a scout, you are not doing it wrong but thinking wrong.

The FC could always do what they do when no-one steps up to logi...

It's ok, you will still be euphoric when the FC fleet warp you to his scout, alt or player, before resuming with the CTRL-CLICK F1 fun gameplay.

No it isn't a great point, it a foolish and myopic point - you may be surprised to find that not everyone came to the game with the same aspirations as you, whoever you are. Some people came to this game to give out hugs in signal cartel or to spend weeks gaining the trust of some dude to overturn an alliance or simple to explore the beauty that is Eve. Loads of guys will love the new scout power:

imagine you become the +¬minence grise, you warp all these mugs to victory or defeat, or perhaps to certain death!

I've just worked out why Bat Country are so into supporting this. lol

How about you think of your FC and realize he probably does not find it fun to scan everything by himself, provide the warp ins by himself and then direct the fleet all by himself? Is your lazy attitude of not being willing to work for the fleet to work supposed to be a god given right that nobody will ever remove from you?

The reason FC might overload from a change like this is because there are too many lazy people in fleet would would be happy if they could farm KM while afk. When FC start quitting because nobody steps up to support them and just step down themselves and decide to just be F1 grunt, then maybe people will realise they should of stepped up just a little bit once in a while to do the "hard and boring" job of enabling all your friends to have a fight.

The "enablers" in this game do all the work and as soon as some MIGHT get offloaded to the rest of the fleet, it's all tears and rage because the god given right of the lazy leeches might be somewhat reduced...

Shakespeare could not write a bigger tragedy...

So you are some kind of "defender of the dead weight"?

Look at all that forumwhine. Lovely! Good idea for a number of reasons; most noticably the involvement of dedicated scouts/tacklers over the "blops your ass" approach. I take it fleetwarp to a member will still be possible, yes?

Now, if somebody could explain me once more, very slowly, why this would "break wormholes" ? People in wormholes can't hit "warp to corp location" for themselves? People don't know how to type "X" in fleet chat or profoundly dislike to listen to comms and warp their own goddamn asses?

Or is it maybe because then you'd have to be IN the corp and not just purple whist staying safely in NPC corps? I don't get the whole fuzz here-- please explain. Warp drive still working as intended, only difference being you have the additional human factor of good vs bad scout, good vs bad warp-your-own. Oh wait! I get it. The notion that the group with the better pilots might win scares you?

Lol. And +1 Fozzie.

While I'm on a roll pissing of people across the globe, can I pitch the idea of a midslot module called the "Remote Cyno Jammer"? Not *that* would really stir up the place "Oh noes! I'll unsub all my 843 accounts at once!!" LOL and LOL. But seriously guys; can CCP do anything without y'all going heads-over-heels about how this would break the game forever? Good idea is good. EvEwiki has a good article on how to engage your warpdrive. Read it.

Says the NPC forum alt.

Your "not dead weight" crowd will still get their fleet warp at the end of the day so their gameplay is not affected. The FC will be able to deal with it as long as his group is willing to train people into the required roles. If they are not willing, I guess they will get defeated by the side who does...

To stop the FC ship from being the scout in a battle.

All you did earlier on is show you have no idea how our fleets work.

All these bads.... I mean casuals come crawling out of the wood work to run their mouths about things they don't have a very good understanding of.

Actually, he's right. The current line of FC fittings for our fleets all include the ability to probe.

What's more, most of our FCs are using multiple accounts during every engagement, running their brick-tanked FC ship (which may or may not be a booster) as well as a probing covops. Why? Well, it's really quite simple:

90% of humanity is a bunch of mouth-breathing morons who'd have a hard time finding their heads with both hands if they weren't attached.

This is also why for large organizations, fittings are standardized - we simply don't trust the average salt-of-the-earth nitwit to have the first clue how to fit a ship.

We also tend not to trust the average salt-of-the-earth nitwit to not be shooting his own fleet members during a fight - and experience has proven us right on this one at least once pretty much every fight.

So if you expect the FCs to not be control-freaks who feel like this change means they have to do everything themselves on even more simultaneous logins... you're either incredibly naive, or smoking crack.

And if you think this is unfairly critical of people in general, I encourage you to talk with people who run large organizations outside of EVE. This is not a condition that exists only for explodable internet space pixels. The more points of failure you introduce, the more places failure will occur.

Always.

Edit to add: As for the specific claim about 'a 250 man fleet being a one-man show'... it's usually more like a four-man show. Maybe up to 9 if you want to include the WC's turning their boosts on and off.

They already put scouts far away and run even if 1 neutral pops in local. Your point is null. The only way to get fights is to deceive bads into thinking they can win.

It doesn't do anything for bombers. Really. Bomb runs use a once off "bookmark" for a perch, so most of the time you don't bother with the bookmark. Just warp to fleet member.

This change is good it kills the blob and forces people to learn to play the game

If they're anything like my bombing FCs they'll just target a wreck and tell us to warp to that then target a ship. I have never been fleet warped to a hostle grid in a bomber.

I don't think you understood any of what I just said.

I agree Pi the confusion comes from you guys talking at cross-porpoises, 'Hidden Porpoise' is talking, I guess, about a bomber torp fit rather than in a bombing role , the timings and direction do require a little more finesse in the bombing role.

LOVE your toon's name 'Hidden Porpoise'

These casual tears are the best. Fozzie can rate how good a patch is for the health of the game by how many bads come out of the wood work. The more bads crying, the better it is.

Targeting a single ship is to line up the shot on the center of the fleet, we didn't get fleet warps to hostle grids so that lag wouldn't decloak everyone.

It doesnt. Cant warp around the grid and entosis at the same time.

ATTENTION, I'VE GOT IT, STOP THE PRESSES! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!

guys, guys, what if, guys, what if we add a stacking penalty to fleets? a fleet of 20 outputs it's full DPS, every additional fleet member outputs 50% of its original DPS. This penalty is cumulative on to the other additional member of the fleet until eventually someone is just outputting close to 0 DPS.

this probably won't solve anything, but the tears it will create will be well worth it.

I liek my idea better

You can get around most of those defense with number, You can only fit so many damps on an inty or ECM mods on an ECM ship after all. Oh look, the solution is again the same as to many problems...

Or you can use the most "OP" thing in this game and clutter the grid around his target with friendly ship. One of them will catch or kill or push it away. A loose ball of caracals with rapid light will force an inty off the field. Entosis inty will still be stupid but at least you can shove him off the field. Letting ships as manoeuvrable and fast as inties being able to run entosis link is where the mistakes was made imo.

Fleet Warp Q&A with CCP Larrikin and Spectre Fleet:

https://soundcloud.com/jayne-fillon/spectre-fleet-qa-with-ccp-larrikin

Someone wrote a tl;dr on reddit at https://m.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/3a71h3/fleet_warp_qa_with_ccp_larrikin_and_spectre_fleet/ (below)

First question is why change in the first place:

* Give more people roles in fleets. When questioned about alts he didn't really have an answer.
* Give sniper fleets more of an advantage. (Like they really need it since practically everyone runs them)

What about small fleets who can't spare the member to act as a warp beacon?

* Well that kind of sucks for them.

How will this change make it better? Regarding perch bookmarks.

* "That would be tough to find."
* Share the bookmarks.

This would give corp fleets and advantage over NPSI and other mixed fleets.

* Would like to do alliance bookmarks but "technical difficulties".
* Use an alt.
* Doesn't think it gives an advantage.

Changes to bookmarks?

* "Yes"
* "We realize this will impact wormhole groups."

Slippery Petes OP?

* Will flail nerf bat if it gets bad.

Why not let squad commanders warp?

* This breaks the what we want to do with the bomber meta.

This change will cause fleet members to land at different times due to warp speeds, is this intended?

* Fleet warp to a scout if you want to prevent this.

Why include mission locations?

* Consistency
* Slowing mission runners down is not a bad thing.

Planned solutions for wormhole people?

* Looking into it.

Listening to the Q&A has been extremely frustrating... Every time a good compromise is suggested "ya, but that won't meet our goals with bombing runs" is the response... This should indicate to you Larrikin that bombing runs need to be addressed by specifically working with the bomber. Why they are getting lumped into this goal of making pilots more active is beyond me. The two goals clearly require two separate solutions, and it feels extremely lazy that compromises like squad warp being retained, or a delayed fleet warp "spool up" mechanic aren't being considered, solely because you're trying so hard to kill 2 or even 3 birds with 1 stone.

Oh for goodness sake, he wants to remove Orbit, Approach and Keep at Range next. This would utterly kill so much frigate and destroyer game play by making it impossible to get under the guns of a slower tracking weapon system.

I manually pilot cruisers and above. But for small ships the server tick speed means you cannot orbit manually at close range because you are already out of orbit by the time the next tick comes around. And you have to manage cap, reps, tackle and webs, weapons, overheating, target switching for drones etc etc.

Discussed in the wormhole feedback soundcloud: https://m.soundcloud.com/jimsuletu/wormholefleetwarping

This one nails it for me.



Someone want to educate me in how I can SLOW DOWN my warp speed by using my "skills" please.

Anyone?

Hello......?

If you don't want to be a scout then dont be one, to say you are nothing more than a boring mobile bookmark though is a lie. This is how we used to do things and there was a lot of people who had fun with it. It is one of the most active jobs you could have in a fleet and a damnsight more engaging than ctrl-click next broadcasted target.

Why not? We use just as flimsy interceptors, t1 frigates and Ewar frigs.

So bring more than one.

They dont currently because they dont need to. We used them in the past, we will use them in the furture when this lands. In terms of adapting to change this is an easy one.

You can warp to 0 on a cloaky.

Simply tell it when you enter warp so it can move out of the way.

People just act as if this was a change to something absolutely unheard in EvE when all it really is is a sort of roll back to how things were a couple of years back when there was far less holding hands and catering to the aut****.

People managed back then, they actually manged just fine and people will manage again.

And as of 80 pages "negative" feedback, I see mostly alts and minor scrubs like myself posting against it except I am not against it, I am in favor still does not change that I am a minor scrub none the less while the guys from the major alliance and a lot of vets who actually still know how things used to be a couple of years back are very much in favor of the change.

It seems that the people against it are the newer ones and people who think that log in, join fleet, assign drones, watch furry smut, come back and admire your increased kill board stats is indeed leet peeveepee.

This change a logical next step from the change to drone assignment: less zombie fleets, less F1 fleet cattle. I can see why so many people rage about it

I'm all for it.

Anathema 2.3k ehp base

crusader 2.16k ehp base

Yea, just as flimsy.

To prevent AFKers from being warped i would suggest implementing at least an afk check for fleet warps.

It could be implemented as a message box with an 'OK' button or as a less visually obstructive indicator prompting to press a hotkey (as im not a big fan of popups and radial menus because of the slow input speed to say the least).
Anyway, any form of AFK gameplay needs to be fought. Where AFK miners/pvp'ers suffer the active players will profit. And that's the real point of this change, right ?

That being said it would be a bad idea to add another Interceptor warp (from outside d-scan range) to the targets reaction time. The only solution i can come up with from the top of my hat is an extensive CovOps rebalance. Im leaning towards speed tanking and a point range bonus here just because CovOps could also make good use of more speed fulfilling their role as cloaky warpins. When it comes to tackling MJD battleships you would need a completely different set of bonuses though, probably active tanking. I think CCP have got their work cut out for themselves here.

As for the Wormholers:
You guys are the ones who have the necessary ships for warpins in your fleet anyways. What kind of WH corp does not have cloaky eyes on the holes ? WH chains are either scanned down in advance so you can bookmark them or you will have your scanner in place for the warpin. The WH faction seems to be trying very hard to give the impression that this change is harder on them than on anybody else. I just hope CCP does not give into that because the whole point again is to promote certain roles.

P.S.
And yea i think the whole bomber argument was a reach down the toilett and should be left out of the discussion from this point on. A well prepared and properly executed bomb run will not be affected by this change. Though they might become a less common occurence due to the hinderence emposed on them now. This is not a balancing effect at all and it was probably unnecessarily emphasized in the Initial post.

But why? Half of those 72 pages is You! Still didn't hear any game-breaking fundamentals except maybe "comfort". I shall dull it down for you: you need scouts. Scouts is where it's at. And, when on familiar terrain, corp bookmarks. Granted there are still some issues with instant-propagation of bookmarks and alliance bookmarks... but please.

Have a little faith in CCP -- there is definitely a plan behind all this and the way the plan seems to be going, it's in favour of smaller gangs and puts more emphasis on each individual's capabilities. Not to mention the Grand Masterplan seems to favour one *real* person per spaceship, as opposed to "I am a one-man fleet flying eight vessels, because I'm cool like that".

Now, please respond to what I said instead of "he's a beacon of ignorant trololololl" for it does not reflect well on your cognitive abilities either. Write a proper response or don't bother at all.

seems logical, I mean Im all for the changes to slow down targets to stop the brainless blobs that occur without true pilot skill, but there is one flaw in this logic if a fleet is comprised of one Corporation and that corp has a BM A in Corp BM's technically every player in that fleet is then viable for that "BM A" so explain why cant they warp as fleet "Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders & Squad Commanders will no longer be able to warp to anything a fleet member couldnGÇÖt warp to on their own." well they can warp to said "BM A" because its in their corp BM's? but seriously I do agree with it too many brainless F1 warriors who have no initiative, Good Times..

Did I mention that all that this change will do is make KITING superior to everything?
Its virtually impossible to land your fleet on the kiters if you cant do a fleet warp.

This change will make kiting-fleets the only viable option.

RIP good brawlfights.

I mean seriously
-Scan something down - 1-2 min if skills and technique are good
-Save location- 1 sec
-Open people & location submenu -1sec
-Find your location you wish to share -1sec
-Shift click and drag into your cargo -1sec
-Jettison can -1sec
-Tell fleet member designated as warp in to loot can -1 sec (more if you didn't designate warp in or they are not paying attention)
-Tell warp in to to warp selves to BM -based on warp time and system size 10-30+ sec (for largest system in BS fleet comp takes 95 sec)
-Fleet warp to member -based on warp time and system size 10-30+ sec (for largest system in BS fleet comp takes 95 sec)

total time 3 min 6 sec
total time that is added to the regular process maybe 35+ sec and at most 100 sec

35+ whole seconds what ever are we going to do (and mind you 30 sec warp for BS is approx 90 AU give or take a few seconds for acceleration and deceleration)

That was my rant some of you will TL:DR it some will read it and agree, some will disagree. I don't care either way just stop bitching so, dam much and learn to adapt to things.

Good, but more nerfs are needed. I'm tired of every scrublord getting by because his FC is holding his hand for every single bit of a fight and being able to execute things that require actual skill to pull off, without actually doing anything. Keep on nerfing bad pilots tyvm for this small, but great change.

You being irritated at a change is no basis on the effectiveness of a change. I bet you also kicked up a stick with the warp speed changes and lots of people went off the deep end with the nano nerf. This change is needed, it is far too easy to control a fleet with one person in one ship.

The point of this change is to force FCs to stop doing the scouting in their FC ship and use more than one ship for this job and thus more people. Can the FC use an alt? Sure. Can the FC use said alt as effectively as a dedicated player? No. The attrition rate for FC alt cov-ops is abysmal. Dedicated scanner alts will be needed with this change so the goals of this change will be met.

It does exactly what they want, It stops the fc from being the scout in their fc ship. All this change does is return us to what we used to do back in 2007 and we got just as many fights then as today.

Baltec1 has been trolling this tread for almost every individual page of all the 91 pages that this thread is. I'm both really impressed with his dedication and surprised that people are still replying to his posts.

The pair of you have no idea what the current fleet doctrines are, the tactics used or that FC ships fit probe launchers on them. Notice that by far the bulk of the whining about this change is coming from NPC alts and pve players and not FCs. The very idea that you think getting the fleet members to do more is "tedious" just goes to show how lazy some people have become. You are literally arguing that you should not have to play EVE while you play EVE.